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	<title>Comments on: The Threshing Floor</title>
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		<title>By: i.burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.finallyhuman.com/2010/06/the-threshing-floor/comment-page-1/#comment-302</link>
		<dc:creator>i.burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 17:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eremosanemos.com/?p=539#comment-302</guid>
		<description>What I meant by David not making a choice was to say that he did not choose any of the three explicitly, but said that he wanted to fall into God&#039;s hand. I&#039;m not certain that is an explicit choice for the third punishment, more a declaration of faith. By implication, David&#039;s faith would mean the third punishment is the one the Lord would enact upon his people. David did not ask for the sword of God to strike Israel. He asked that *he* would fall into God&#039;s hand.

Then we see David &#039;owning&#039; his sin, trying to spare the people from being punished for it. So then the census would still be valid? Maybe God brought the sword to the people to punish David for trying to count them. I could be wrong, though. 

Also, oops. Yes, the Lord does ask David to build and altar. You&#039;re quite right. 

Though I would interpret the act of worship as an act of obedience, to be contrasted with his initial disobedience at the start of this story. The Lord commands the altar to be built after David has interceded for the people. It could be suggested, then, that the act of worship was an act of faith in order to show repentance so that the plague would cease. That would mean that the three days of pestilence were not yet over. So David was right about the hand of God being merciful. God relented from the promised judgement. 

David had listened to Satan and there were consequences for that. Yet God gave David an opportunity to be restored, through an act of obedience. He doesn&#039;t actually sacrifice on the altar until the Angel with the sword has gone, though. 

And yes, the main issue is David&#039;s sin. The sin he committed was apostasy, rejecting the Lord and de-throning him. The act of taking  a census implies stability and security. David was secure in his own accomplishments, not in God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I meant by David not making a choice was to say that he did not choose any of the three explicitly, but said that he wanted to fall into God&#8217;s hand. I&#8217;m not certain that is an explicit choice for the third punishment, more a declaration of faith. By implication, David&#8217;s faith would mean the third punishment is the one the Lord would enact upon his people. David did not ask for the sword of God to strike Israel. He asked that *he* would fall into God&#8217;s hand.</p>
<p>Then we see David &#8216;owning&#8217; his sin, trying to spare the people from being punished for it. So then the census would still be valid? Maybe God brought the sword to the people to punish David for trying to count them. I could be wrong, though. </p>
<p>Also, oops. Yes, the Lord does ask David to build and altar. You&#8217;re quite right. </p>
<p>Though I would interpret the act of worship as an act of obedience, to be contrasted with his initial disobedience at the start of this story. The Lord commands the altar to be built after David has interceded for the people. It could be suggested, then, that the act of worship was an act of faith in order to show repentance so that the plague would cease. That would mean that the three days of pestilence were not yet over. So David was right about the hand of God being merciful. God relented from the promised judgement. </p>
<p>David had listened to Satan and there were consequences for that. Yet God gave David an opportunity to be restored, through an act of obedience. He doesn&#8217;t actually sacrifice on the altar until the Angel with the sword has gone, though. </p>
<p>And yes, the main issue is David&#8217;s sin. The sin he committed was apostasy, rejecting the Lord and de-throning him. The act of taking  a census implies stability and security. David was secure in his own accomplishments, not in God.</p>
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		<title>By: Beverly</title>
		<link>http://www.finallyhuman.com/2010/06/the-threshing-floor/comment-page-1/#comment-301</link>
		<dc:creator>Beverly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 13:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eremosanemos.com/?p=539#comment-301</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t quite understand why you feel david refused to  make a choice - he made a very clear choice - he said I will take the one that ensures people know it&#039;s you God rather than the two that could be blamed on natural circumstances or people.  V13. Refusing to make a choice would have shown his lack of responsibility and trying to shift all responsiblity back to God?  

Sorry I also don&#039;t understand why you are saying David seeks to worship God when God has not told him to do that?  V 18 - God DID tell him to worship - to build the altar - what God didn&#039;t tell him to do was to build it IN ORDER TO stop the plague.  The message clearly for me is God demands worship whatever the circumstances - David wanted to worship to change the circumstances.  We think that our worship changes things - no it is just what God demands regardless of the situation.

Also not quite sure what you mean by main issue is David&#039;s apostasy - surely the ONLY issue is David&#039;s sin? As in every case of every human being - the only ISSUE God has against us is our Sin - of course God is seeking to change that - Hallelujah he has take our sin away and punished Jesus instead of us.  It was the only way he could solve the problem because obviously we weren&#039;t going to solve it ourselves.

Praise the Lord.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t quite understand why you feel david refused to  make a choice &#8211; he made a very clear choice &#8211; he said I will take the one that ensures people know it&#8217;s you God rather than the two that could be blamed on natural circumstances or people.  V13. Refusing to make a choice would have shown his lack of responsibility and trying to shift all responsiblity back to God?  </p>
<p>Sorry I also don&#8217;t understand why you are saying David seeks to worship God when God has not told him to do that?  V 18 &#8211; God DID tell him to worship &#8211; to build the altar &#8211; what God didn&#8217;t tell him to do was to build it IN ORDER TO stop the plague.  The message clearly for me is God demands worship whatever the circumstances &#8211; David wanted to worship to change the circumstances.  We think that our worship changes things &#8211; no it is just what God demands regardless of the situation.</p>
<p>Also not quite sure what you mean by main issue is David&#8217;s apostasy &#8211; surely the ONLY issue is David&#8217;s sin? As in every case of every human being &#8211; the only ISSUE God has against us is our Sin &#8211; of course God is seeking to change that &#8211; Hallelujah he has take our sin away and punished Jesus instead of us.  It was the only way he could solve the problem because obviously we weren&#8217;t going to solve it ourselves.</p>
<p>Praise the Lord.</p>
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		<title>By: i.burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.finallyhuman.com/2010/06/the-threshing-floor/comment-page-1/#comment-300</link>
		<dc:creator>i.burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 09:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eremosanemos.com/?p=539#comment-300</guid>
		<description>In my reading, it seems that though David did seek to repent before any calamity befell the land (v. 8). Yet God still made him choose a punishment. 

Perhaps we can understand God&#039;s response in light of what David said. David apologised for sinning and acting foolishly. He also invites God to take away his iniquity. Thus can we interpret God&#039;s reply as an answer to his prayer? If we look at what David then said, I think we can. Since David refused to make his own choice, but instead left it in God&#039;s hand, perhaps we can see a change in David. He had proactively taken a census and now was willing to submit to the Lord. David no only repents in prayer, but also in his lifestyle. David&#039;s decision making then comes to reflect his humility before God, as David exalt&#039;s the Lord by letting him do what he wants.

As I read this passage, the main issue which sticks out to me is David&#039;s apostasy. He listened to Satan in the first instance and rejected godly advice, and it seems that God is seeking to change that.

Certainly, it is interesting to note that David seeks to worship God when God has not told him to do that. However, what if we interpret the act of worship as a visible demonstration of the repentance in David&#039;s heart? Maybe then we see this act of worship as a sign of faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my reading, it seems that though David did seek to repent before any calamity befell the land (v. 8). Yet God still made him choose a punishment. </p>
<p>Perhaps we can understand God&#8217;s response in light of what David said. David apologised for sinning and acting foolishly. He also invites God to take away his iniquity. Thus can we interpret God&#8217;s reply as an answer to his prayer? If we look at what David then said, I think we can. Since David refused to make his own choice, but instead left it in God&#8217;s hand, perhaps we can see a change in David. He had proactively taken a census and now was willing to submit to the Lord. David no only repents in prayer, but also in his lifestyle. David&#8217;s decision making then comes to reflect his humility before God, as David exalt&#8217;s the Lord by letting him do what he wants.</p>
<p>As I read this passage, the main issue which sticks out to me is David&#8217;s apostasy. He listened to Satan in the first instance and rejected godly advice, and it seems that God is seeking to change that.</p>
<p>Certainly, it is interesting to note that David seeks to worship God when God has not told him to do that. However, what if we interpret the act of worship as a visible demonstration of the repentance in David&#8217;s heart? Maybe then we see this act of worship as a sign of faith.</p>
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		<title>By: beverly</title>
		<link>http://www.finallyhuman.com/2010/06/the-threshing-floor/comment-page-1/#comment-299</link>
		<dc:creator>beverly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 07:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eremosanemos.com/?p=539#comment-299</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t think the chapter indicates what your last paragraphs indicate.  Didn&#039;t David submit to God and repent BEFORE God gave him the choice of his punishment? Verse 8. What David learnt by the punishment is that there are consequences to sin.  What we learn through Jesus is that HE took the consequences for our sin.

Also God stopped the angel (God repented of the evil - verse 15) before David had fallen on his knees. David doesn&#039;t seem to realise this (verse 16)

What David should have done maybe was ask God NOT to carry out any of the punishment on the people but to punish David the first time round?

David thought building the alter would stop the plague -(verse 22)  that wasn&#039;t the message from God - he had already stopped the plague and just told David to build the altar. (verse 18)  Always always (from Adam adding to God&#039;s first commandment.....) Man comes along and adds to what God says - and then we wonder why we don&#039;t benefit.  

Even though God was gracious and commanded the angel to sheath the sword (not forgetting that God had already commanded the angel to stop the killing - so that wasn&#039;t an issue - just that the angel was ready to carry out God&#039;s further instruction.  David was still afraid of the angel&#039;s sword - he was still not fully trusting God (verse 30) 

Thank God for our new covenant where we don&#039;t have to be afraid of the angel with the drawn sword.  Amen  that Jesus took ALL the wrath of God.  Amen that all we are asked to do is to confess and believe.  Amen that sin is dealt with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t think the chapter indicates what your last paragraphs indicate.  Didn&#8217;t David submit to God and repent BEFORE God gave him the choice of his punishment? Verse 8. What David learnt by the punishment is that there are consequences to sin.  What we learn through Jesus is that HE took the consequences for our sin.</p>
<p>Also God stopped the angel (God repented of the evil &#8211; verse 15) before David had fallen on his knees. David doesn&#8217;t seem to realise this (verse 16)</p>
<p>What David should have done maybe was ask God NOT to carry out any of the punishment on the people but to punish David the first time round?</p>
<p>David thought building the alter would stop the plague -(verse 22)  that wasn&#8217;t the message from God &#8211; he had already stopped the plague and just told David to build the altar. (verse 18)  Always always (from Adam adding to God&#8217;s first commandment&#8230;..) Man comes along and adds to what God says &#8211; and then we wonder why we don&#8217;t benefit.  </p>
<p>Even though God was gracious and commanded the angel to sheath the sword (not forgetting that God had already commanded the angel to stop the killing &#8211; so that wasn&#8217;t an issue &#8211; just that the angel was ready to carry out God&#8217;s further instruction.  David was still afraid of the angel&#8217;s sword &#8211; he was still not fully trusting God (verse 30) </p>
<p>Thank God for our new covenant where we don&#8217;t have to be afraid of the angel with the drawn sword.  Amen  that Jesus took ALL the wrath of God.  Amen that all we are asked to do is to confess and believe.  Amen that sin is dealt with.</p>
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