Paul’s thorn in the flesh was not a physical ailment – it was a messenger from satan – it was a satanic attack (because of his telling of the Word). In chapter 12 he talks of his infirmities – in 11 he has already clarified that by infirmities he means persecutions not personal illness.

My self doubt surely does not alter the truth of the word of God – I would always trust the Word of God against my self doubt – the fact that I am not fully exercising my faith it my fault not God’s.

Intrigued by your interpretation of Paul’s talk in Acts 17 – from what I can see – verses 24 to 31 are all direct references to OT biblical text (the only reason he didn’t actually mention chapter and verse is because they wouldn’t be familier. I would always quote a verse to a non Christian but wouldn’t say John 3 16 but I am still quoting that verse? – and of course we have the famous verse in the very same chapter that everything we hear should be checked against scripture – so don’t see that anything Paul says (beyond starting the conversation with a local site and mentioned one verse from a known poem – he stuck to the Gospel of God – that’s all I am trying to do and encourage others to do.

Anyway, I’m quite intrigued by some aspects of Beverly’s reply and the scripture used……

I think you are using Old Testament on its own to disagree with my view on God being interested in a person’s opinions? You cite a snippet of Job and then move on. So am I to understand that a single verse of OT is sufficient to illustrate what the scriptures say on a matter? If so, is this a unique example, or can one in general take a verse of OT and illustrate a point?

You then move on to cancer (I only chose this as a specific example to illustrate, originally I was raising the issues around the question ‘why do people get sick’) and quote Mark 16:18. You take from this verse ‘they will recover’ as a promise – a 100% promise if we believe enough.
I shall not comment on the self-doubt you admit to on this subject beyond pointing out that I think I have understood what you said and might mention it in future if Ian’s blog raises the subject of self doubt…..

Well now, you chose to then say ‘either the Bible is lying or we are not doing it right when people don’t recover’ mmmm……how do you connect this with Paul’s thorn in the flesh? Was Paul not doing it right? 3 times not doing it right? I thought Paul was reconciled to God not answering his prayers on this subject?

The final biblical point I raised is Paul’s speech to the Athenians in Acts 17. His initial approach is very different to what seems to be his normal approach in a synagogue in the surrounding chapters of Acts. We are given a lot of detail of his speech in Acts 17:22-31, compared to his speeches week by week in the synagogues. Why? I believe scripture is there for a reason, to teach and instruct. I tried to point out that Paul did not go in with chapter and verse quotes – he could not have done this with the NT anyway as it was not written down, far less divided into chapter and verse at that time. He appears not to quote OT chapter and verse either – instead he draws on the truths of the OT and the emerging NT in a local style. A style which engaged the Athenians. I like this, it encourages me to approach the world around me with God’s story in their style. Of course, Paul would have got down to OT scripture and the revelation of Jesus in his own life with the enquirers and new believers referred to in v32-34. So I think this shows that one word, one verse, one style, one hammering out of Bible references is not the way Paul did things every time.
In the same way, as others have commented, the Bible is not only to be used as an ‘instruction book’ single verse by single verse (we have had this debate on this site before) but it is also to be considered, prayed over and used with passages combining to give instruction. It is to be understood over a lifetime of following, with new things each day – as well as to be used for a quick word, a principle or law, or a rebuke. As you say of Paul, Beverly, delivering the message he received from God – in our own small and humble ways, its just the same.

I also loved the analogy someone gave several billion comments ago – about an angry/shamed child kicking out at a parent. The parent WON’T leave, (the child doesn’t really want him to) – but in that moment, the child is so full of shame and rage that he can’t tolerate the close attention of the parent.

Being a parent sheds an awful lot of light on how I read the Scriptures and how I understand what it means to be a daughter of God. I agree with Beverley that Jesus’ story is what counts – but I also believe that He cares passionately about every one of our stories, including our opinions, just as I care about my kids’ opinions.

We are created for relationship with Him. I don’t believe He wants robotic children who do the right things at all times because they’ve been told to in the manual. He wants real children, real people, real relationship. Ian’s poem is about being real.

Yes of course knowing that we are heard matters – but what is the point of prayer – prayer doesn’t “move” God or “force” him to do anything. Prayer is not to inform God how bad our situation is – he already knows our need before we ask. Praying God’s solution from the Word releases life – praying negatively and focusing on our problem energises and strengthens the problem.

I am not talking about finding our own spirituality I am talking about walking the Christian life – God is not asking us to live for Him he is asking us to let Him live through us (Gal 2 v 20) The Christian life is not a changed life it’s an exchanged life. This can only be accomplished when we act what we are (which is dead to self because we WERE crucified with him at the cross – even if we don’t feel like it) and allow the Holy Spirit to lead and empower us.

I find a spirituality which insists upon the denial of our feelings and experiences to be rather flat ……….– that may be how you feel but that is exactly what being a Christian entails. You have chosen the Christian walk – denying our feelings and experiences in favour of letting God live through us is exactly what we are called to do – I don’t find it flat at all – I find it liberating exciting uplifting and wonderful.

I too have just read Abraham in my Bible in a Year – and I understand from Paul in Corinthians that when I read the story of Abraham that I am to learn from his (and thereby not repeat) his experience. The stories aren’t there to stroke us and say there there we all get it wrong – the stories are there Paul tells us so that we learn from them and don’t make the same mistakes.

Firstly, I think it’s foolish to disregard the world ……….– but the world is under satan’s control – he is the prince of this world – there are only two kingdoms – the kingdom of satan (this current world) or the kingdom of God. This world is groaning to see the sons of God manifest themselves – until we grow up and start acting like the Sons of God that we are – the world will continue to suffer under satan’s control.

God affirmed it’s goodness at every stage……. yes at every stage before Adam and Eve sinned!! If the world is so good and to be regarded why so many instructions from Jesus and the apostles to not have anything to do with the world and its way of operating? To be In the world but not Of it. The minute we “regard” the world we associate ourselves with it.

God’s word tells us we only have one counsellor – that’s the Holy Spirit. God’s word no-where tells us to go and sort a problem out with any other counsellor than the Holy Spirit. It tells us to share – yes but share a) only ever with other Christians (and most counsellors are not Christians and therefore do not even approach a problem from a God perspective) and b) to share the Truth – not human experience.

It’s not about reading the Scriptures and doing them, so much as it is about being in the Church, the community where the Spirit brings about the transformation from glory to glory, or the renewing of our minds …….. again Ian – where in scripture does it say this?– No it is purely and simply about reading Scripture and doing it – what else does being a doer of the Word or following the Will of God or any of the other instructions (especially Psalm 119!) mean? (and see my further comments about what reading and doing scripture means below) Jesus didn’t focus on being in the church (and interesting phrase – we ARE the church we can’t be IN it. or in the community – he focused on being In the word – when did he ever give any instruction that wasn’t rooted and grounded straight from the word – what was the only weapon he used against satan – the word – if it was good enough for Jesus it’s good enough for me.

But guess what? A great deal of our relational contact with one another is through dialogue and sharing experiences. Many of these experiences might be negative or damaging to us. We share them to find grace, and to find healing………. Agreed that it what we DO – but again it’s not what Jesus or the New Testament Writers (inspired by the Holy Spirit told us to do). And while we continue doing it our way instead of their way there is going to remain just as many Christians finding themselves with problems as non Christians. There is no need for a Christian to be depressed, ill, defeated etc – Christians might find themselves depressed etc but there is no reason for it – that sounds harsh but the bible says it’s true.

Whoever conceals his sin does not prosper, but the one who confesses and renounces them finds mercy (Pro 28:13)…………. Yes agreed – but not for the point of investigation and experience sharing – but for the point of knowing we are forgiven and moving on – put it behind us not open it up and examine it – God says its buried in the deepest sea – why fish it out again. Keep short accounts.

I notice that you seem to want to drive a sharp wedge between human thought and Christian practice………. Yes of course I do – because the Word calls on me to do that – Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind – not be ye influenced by human thought.

And then you validate such an understanding of the interoperation of scripture by saying that if it ‘works’ then it must be right…….No – I am saying – that we should practice what Scripture tells us and we will be rewarded because if we do God’s will we will naturally (not as a reward but naturally as fruit) walk in his blessing.

I present in response to this: The Jehovah’s Witnesses………. – what have Jehovah’s Witnesses got to do with this – their fundamental statement is that Jesus isn’t God – therefore anything they seek to do beyond that is going to be wrong. Again that’s what Jesus was talking about when he referred to the Pharisees being whitened sepulchres. When I talk about doing scripture – I assume we all understand that I am talking not just about reading and doing “a book” – that’s religion. I am talking about hearing The Living Word (Jesus) and seeking to obey the Living Word because we Love him and have a relationship with him. I don’t read scripture as a book and do my best to “do” what it says – that isn’t what I mean at all – it isn’t what James means. But being a “doer” of the word means having a living and real relationship with the Living Word and through his Words he has left written for me acting out of love and allowing him to act through me to reach others. The only way he has left for me to do this is through his Words that have been written down for me so that the Holy Spirit can use them and bring them alive for me so I can literally be a doer of the Word – not copying bland instructions from a manual – that’s not what I mean or do at all

Doesn’t the very word “tradition” worry you – when I read what scripture has to say about “tradition” I would always always seek to refer anything that tradition says straight back to the Word and confirm it before I seek to believe it.

This, I think, might be the greatest difference between the way you and I read the Scriptures: I want the narrative to impact my story …… – but Ian it isn’t about YOU and YOUR story and it isn’t about Me and MY story – it’s about Jesus and HIS story – we are hidden in Christ – it’s all about HIM through us – it’s never about ME it’s always about HIM – none of me and all of him – the minute I let ME get in the way problems happen – while I let HIM through and ignore ME blessing flow – the New testament is so very clear about this – I don’t understand why you don’t see this? (again not meant as a rude statement – just confused that you study Scripture so much and yet don’t seem to see this clear message in and through it)

Your last paragraph is completely alien to my way of seeing and understanding Scripture. Of course I need to obey – with thinking – but not with my own thinking (understanding) but allowing the Holy Spirit to understand and think for me. How can it be offensive to God to allow him to do my thinking for me? The prayers of Paul in Ephesians are completely about this.

Psalm 6 is truly an expression of how a non Christian might approach an angry God – however I am not a non Christian and God isn’t angry with me – in fact I am a Son of God I am a member of his family – I am a joint inheritor with Jesus – so I have no need to express myself to God in the same way as the writer of Psalm 6. When reading a Psalm I seek to understand what it tells me about God – not what it tells me about me except in relation to how helpless I am without God – however I am not without God. Psalm 6 asks God not to rebuke me, to have mercy on me, to heal me, to deliver me, to save me, to hear my prayer. Praise the Lord that ALL of these things the Lord in his gracious mercy did indeed deliver for me through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ – Hallelujah it is done – it is finished – it is accomplished – now I have no need to pray this prayer – because it is done for me. All I need do now is to praise and thank the Lord that he is indeed (as this Psalm tells me) – the merciful Lord the healing Lord the delivering Lord the saviour Lord the Lord who always hears and answers my prayer. Isn’t God wonderful. This is why I read the psalms – not to massage my ego not to say there there that’s ok I feel like that – but to say WOW what a wonderful Father I have.

The same biblical grounds that Peter’s first confession was for Christ to leave HIM –…………… but once again (and I struggle with why I am not being heard on this) Peter was NOT a Christian at this point – he was NOT filled with the Holy Spirit – he was not praying a Christian Prayer – Jesus never spoke to a Christian! If you can find me one instance where the Christian Peter ever ever prayed this prayer or recommended any other Christian pray it then I am totally one hundred percent with you – but until then – I will continue in my stance that what Peter said to the Lord is NOT a Christian response to the Gospel – because whilst in the time and place Peter was at it was a historically accurate statement – it does not make it an accurate statement for a Christian to say today and we as Christians MUST make this distinction if we are going to be an effective Witness for Christ in this World.

Can you ever waste words with God? Since we do not pray as we ought in any case, his Spirit intercedes on our behalf. Maybe this means that the words we pray do not necessarily equate to action God takes. I see no reason why it should be any other way. Someone might cry out for money, when what God is going to give them is provision. Or someone might want children, but they are given a new kind of family – through adoption or some other grace. A prayer of doubt is still a prayer acceptable to God. Why? Because it still features God as the subject. Even in declaring doubt to God, one still in that instance is relying upon a faith that God hears such a prayer and might even be moved by it.

Surely, more than any fleeting miracle or word of knowledge or anything else, to know that we are heard matters more to our souls. Who have we in heaven but him?

So we are entirely wrong to even think about asking him to leave in a fit of shame or anger – and if we know it is wrong – why would we even want to express it?

I find a spirituality which insists upon the denial of our feelings and experiences to be rather flat. Considering that the Scriptures are filled with stories of people sharing their experiences and feeling the feelings appropriate to human beings. I’m reading Genesis as part of my Bible in a Year plan, and I’m onto the story of Abraham.

He heard from the Lord numerous times and he declared that he would give Abraham a son by Sarah. His lack of faith and doubt caused him not only to have an illegitimate son, but to laugh in God’s face! I raise this example because it demonstrates to me God’s intention to carry out his purposes frankly despite Abraham’s shaky obedience.

The world says ‘talk about it’ and the Word says ‘die’.

I am deeply troubled by this.

Firstly, I think it’s foolish to disregard the world. God affirmed it’s goodness at every stage, and especially when he made the human race. This foundational goodness tells me that I can trust that this creation and it’s products are not evil. They can be used for evil ends, certainly, but the essence of the creation is not evil. It is good.

Therefore, human progress and understanding is grounded in goodness. God charged the human race to cultivate the earth, and that is our blessed and sacred task. Today, that task sometimes takes place in laboratories and with experiments, so we have medicines and can make better quality food more efficiently. And also, we have grown in our understanding of ourselves. The rise of counselling and associated means of care are an extension of a blessed task.

Much contemporary theory in counselling has abandoned behaviour modification as a reliable means of affecting change in a person. Instead, those who practice counselling speak of a ‘healing relationship’, noticing that is it the quality of relationship between the counsellor and client that results in transformation.

We might stop and think on this, and realise that there is nothing new under the sun. Jesus seemed to practice just this with his 12. And, indeed, this is how discipleship has always worked. It’s not about reading the Scriptures and doing them, so much as it is about being in the Church, the community where the Spirit brings about the transformation from glory to glory, or the renewing of our minds.

But guess what? A great deal of our relational contact with one another is through dialogue and sharing experiences. Many of these experiences might be negative or damaging to us. We share them to find grace, and to find healing.

Whoever conceals his sin does not prosper, but the one who confesses and renounces them finds mercy (Pro 28:13).

I notice that you seem to want to drive a sharp wedge between human thought and Christian practice. Firstly, that we can’t do things ‘the world’s way’, and then that we shouldn’t rely on the interpretations of others when reading the Bible.

And then you validate such an understanding of the interoperation of scripture by saying that if it ‘works’ then it must be right.

I present in response to this: The Jehovah’s Witnesses. They read scripture and tried their best to do what it said, and their religion is a long way away from what we understand as the tradition handed down from the Apostles. There are a great many groups in existence today all claiming to be acting in obedience to the will of God. Perhaps in one understanding of God’s will, they necessarily ARE. But in the sense you meant, there is such a diversity of contradictory practices that is becomes impossible to maintain such an understanding. Only if we decide that only our experience of Christianity is normative can we even begin to discount others. But that’s pretty proud, isn’t it?

This is why I try to listen to the voice of tradition, those who have gone before me and have interpreted the same Scriptures in their own ages and contexts. I also try to read scripture in the context of my faith community, so others cam help me understand. I do not jettison my reason, with which I am able to comprehend things like plots and genres and characters and the difference between dialogue and prose and poetry and proverbs. By these means, scripture begins to make sense of itself (as much as a self-contained story can make sense) and then begins to make sense of MY story.

This, I think, might be the greatest difference between the way you and I read the Scriptures: I want the narrative to impact my story, and the story of others. You seem to view it as a collection of facts about God from which to draw strength and faith for the Christian walk.

I therefore feel great freedom in how I discuss my experience and the Scriptures, because I believe in that, I am able to meet with God. He is a good an generous Father, and the great joy of Scripture is the endless mystery it presents to me, namely Christ.

In my understanding, it would be offensive to God as my maker and indeed to the ancient saints who wrote the scriptures for me to just ‘obey’ without thinking. There is far more to scripture than commands to obey. And in fact if thats how we view Scripture, we reduce it down to an IKEA instruction manuel: Able to be accomplished by our own works, albeit with great difficulty.

Then are you living within the Christian livestyle we are instructed to live in by giving time and space to your feelings? I would suggest not.

I read Psalm 6 the other day. I was very struck by it. You should read it. It’s FULL of feeling.

on what biblical grounds is it appropriate for any Christian to ask God to leave them?

The same biblical grounds that Peter’s first confession was for Christ to leave HIM.

In regard to cancer sufferers – I too have sat and held the hands of (amongst others) my mother, two mothers in law and a father in law as they were all dying of cancer so I seek not to triviualise the pain and suffering. However I also look at how Jesus dealt with sickness and how his disciples dealt with sickness and not once do I find that any of them left anyone sick and just sat at the bedside and comforted them as they were dying? As an absolute Jesus healed ALL – God is called our Healer not Our Sometimes Healer – and we are told that Believers SHALL lay hands on the sick and they SHALL recover – Mark 16 v 18 – so either the Bible is lying – which it doesn’t – or we as Christians aren’t “doing” it properly. So yes the answer IS Jesus. Jesus does not desire wish or command anyone to die of cancer – that people are still dying of cancer is a fact – but that is because us Christians aren’t actually believing and carrying out Mark 16 v 18 (and I include myself in this although I am practicing more and seeing more results).

Again Mike I think the difference is I am drawing from what God says in the Word rather than my experience because I believe I can trust God and His Word more than I can my experience – my experience has been wrong in the past and I am sure you can think of instances when you were wrong in how you judged an experience.

When you say Paul didn’t have “the benefit” of the New Testament. He did indeed have this benefit – the words of Paul are indeed the very words of Jesus – his revelation during his years alone with God are the further revelations of Jesus not some ponderings of a clever man. Paul tells us that clearly in so many ways. He isn’t delivering his thoughts he is delivering the message he received directly from God through Jesus. So again the answer is Yes Jesus is the only answer because that is the only answer that Paul gave us.

James 1:6 when you are asking God to leave you – is that not a prayer – isn’t prayer just a posh way of saying we are having a conversation with God? When I’m talking to God I don’t say – OK now I’m praying God so take notice? When you make this statement – are you expecting God to answer this prayer with yes ok I’ll leave you – hopefully not. – then you are asking in doubt – what’s the point of asking a prayer in doubt – you aren’t going to receive it – pointless waste of words to God? I totally agree that it may have been appropriate for Peter to ask God to leave him at that point – because that was a genuine request which Jesus could choose to act upon or not. God wasn’t yet dwelling on the inside of Peter. We never find Peter saying this same thing post Pentecost. We as Christians have God living on the inside of us – and to make light of that? (for this is what came across to me in Ian’s writing) but asking God to leave just because we feel down – seems so disrespectful of all God has done for us through grace. It’s like chucking it back in his face just because of our current mood swing. It appears to be thinking of ourselves rather than God and as Christians surely we should always be putting God at the forefront? And if we find ourselves not doing this – then we should instantly correctly this when we spot it rather than allowing ourselves and encouraging others to dwell on it?

Hebrews 13:5 I totally concur and agree that context is important. However when God says he will never leave us – this doesn’t need to be taken in context – the word of God is the word of God regardless of the context in which it is written. This promise of God is backed up elsewhere and by Jesus himself John 14 v 16 so I consider it entirely relevant – why would anyone ask God to leave them when he has spoken his word that he won’t and he can’t break his word.

I note your analogy but again it isn’t really an analogy because as Christians we are specifically told that we are to be dead to selves – therefore you can’t use this as an argument – because you are expressly disobeying God’s word by acting the part of the 7 year old. The world’s answer to problems in self is to talk about it – God’s answer is to say “die”. So we are entirely wrong to even think about asking him to leave in a fit of shame or anger – and if we know it is wrong – why would we even want to express it?
Numbers 23:9 – I apologise – this should have been Numbers 23 v 19 – typo. The correct verse fits in with the theme that God can’t lie (ie say one thing and do something else) and God can’t break his word – so what’s the point of asking him to leave if he can’t Pointless.

Mark 7:13 II Do you think not think it possible that by “interpreting” rather than just taking His Word as written and “doing” it – the danger becomes great that Christians act according to their humanly interpreted doctrines rather than the Word itself? (see verse 9).

There are tough passages of the bible which can seem difficult at first to understand – but I don’t read in God’s word that human interpretation is the way forward – just relying on the Holy Spirit to reveal it. And the way to know if you have correctly heard the Holy Spirit is to Do it and see if it works!!

The passages I tend to mention in this blog all seem to have a fairly straight forward and relevant message – God doesn’t lie – God won’t break his word –etc. I am merely trying to say what is the point of us expressing opinions on any Christian blog that aren’t actually in accord with God’s straightforward instructions based on his word?

Your comments about the old testament food laws I don’t see as relevant – the bible is its own commentary and the bible is progressive as God progressively revealed his plan – so of course Jesus was pointing out that it isn’t the “actual eating or not eating of food” that was the point but the reason behind it. It was perfectly appropriate for the OT Hebrews follow the direction without “thought” and now it is totally appropriate for NT Christians to follow God’s new covenant “rules” (although I hesitate to call them rules) without thought for exactly the same reason as Jesus gave – its about our heart attitude to what we do that makes what we do right – not the outward actions. I see no conflict. If God says “do this” he still means “do this” – if Paul says “rejoice on all occasions” how can we “misinterpret” this direct instruction? It doesn’t need interpreting – just obeying – Paul is promising us that the result of obeying God’s Word will be benefit and blessing – so instead of saying – Paul doesn’t mean this because we can’t do it when we feel down – perhaps we should be saying – exactly when we feel down – we need to conquer our flesh (as instructed by Paul) and on these very occasions is when we particularly need to practice the instruction to “rejoice on all occasions” I find my life far more fulfilled far more peaceful and far more satisfactory and I find myself far more in touch with and in love with God when I just practice what I am told to do in the NT rather than “interpret” and thereby allowing me to come up with excuses as to why I shouldn’t be doing that because I don’t feel like it at that point in time.

John 17:17 Of course the Word refers to Christ – but in exactly the same way Christ is THE WORD so anytime we read in the “written word – logos” or hear in the spoken word – rema” regardless whether it comes out of the mouth of Jesus – or is written down and recorded as The Word of God – it is still Christ – because Christ always has been and always will be The Word. That’s how come God created the world “through him” because God “spoke – ie: used his Word (ie Jesus) to bring the world into being. So I would never seek to distinguish between “Jesus” and The Word –because they are obviously one and the same thing. Jesus never “explained” himself – he always said “it is written” – he relied on the “written Word” because he knew it was “Him” – so if it’s good enough for him it’s good enough for me. Your distinction of “the cannon of scripture” is a worrying one for me – because once we seek to separate the Word of God from The Word of God – we surely find ourselves in dangerous ground. You only know that Jesus said and is because of the written word you have in front of you. You can’t distinguish between the two and still hold on to the essence of The Truth.

So I still contend that regardless of whether you, Ian or Mike “feel” like asking God to leave – given that it is a request that is not one you would like God to obey and indeed could he obey and still be God? Then are you living within the Christian livestyle we are instructed to live in by giving time and space to your feelings? I would suggest not. The question still remains – on what biblical grounds is it appropriate for any Christian to ask God to leave them?

However, that hope seems to be nullified by the response to my offence at one word making or breaking an opinion: opinion does not count.

I reserve my right to hold opinion: I am shaped in this by God at work in the World, by God answering prayer, and, of course, by Scripture. I have even modified or changed opinion at times on church/God/spiritual issues over my 30 odd years in the Christian walk. I think God is both interested in, and at work on, my opinions – even if to Beverly and maybe others they are irrelevant.

My opinion of Beverly’s comments is based on an overall picture as well as each of her many comments. I have sometimes agreed but often disagreed with these comments. I would be pleased to be able to seek truth together, and accept your comment Jonathan.

So, a couple of responses to things I’m not sure are quite right Beverly. First, if someone asked the question ‘why do people get sick’, I think answering with one word, Jesus, you would give the wrong idea to a great many people. I feel that this subject requires care, sensitivity and getting alongside the sick – in the ethos of ‘a bruised reed I will not break’. I have sat with cancer sufferers many times and it is not easy. One word is not enough, even though I agree one word is the root answer to the Christian message on this, and indeed every subject.

Second, I wonder why scripture gives us reasonable detail on Paul’s speech to the Athenians? I’m guessing Beverly’s approach to be: he should have gone in from word one on Jesus. He didn’t have the benefit of the New Testament as it was unwritten, and I’m thinking he probably didn’t have OT scrolls to hand either. So he spoke in the fashion of those around him, and led them to see Jesus was ‘worth a look’. I wonder if this approach is still valid today – it is scriptural in the sense that its written in scripture.

I pray we will all subscribe to seeking truth together